Building Your Supply Chain for a Sustainable Future with Achal Patel

Dan Magida (00:15):

Welcome to another episode of Safety Sock. I’m Dan Magida alongside Will Davis. Will, how you doing today?

Will Davis (00:22):

Doing great, Dan. I appreciate you asking.

Dan Magida (00:24):

 How’s the snow where you are? Cleared up yet?

Will Davis (00:27):

 just certain boulders in certain spots where they push it all to the side, but it’s starting to clear away.

Dan Magida (00:33):

Yeah, it just does not stop raining in California. It’s literally the worst.

Will Davis (00:38):

They deserve it. They need water.

Dan Magida (00:39):

Honestly, since I’ve come out here, it’s hasn’t stopped raining. Maybe it’s me. Bad juju. Just a bad walking omen.

Will Davis (00:48):

I didn’t say it.

Dan Magida (00:49):

I said it, but let’s change that to some good juju cause…

Will Davis (00:53):

Good Juju.

Dan Magida (00:54):

We’re happy to welcome co-founder and CEO, all the above there from Cabinet Health. Achal Patel. Achal, how are you?

Achal Patel (01:06):

I’m doing great also. Thanks for asking Dan. It’s a beautiful day here in New York City and sounds like it’s a little bit less rainy than where you’re at.

Dan Magida (01:14):

I mean, just the words that New York City has nicer weather than Los Angeles for winter is such a joke.

Will Davis (01:21):

Bad winter. Somebody’s only been there for the winter. Put those two things together, but you know, we’re gonna focus on the positive side

Dan Magida (01:27):

Back to New York. That’s, that’s where it’s back to New York. That’s what it’s, there we go. That’s what it is.

Will Davis (01:31):

Now Achal, can you please tell the good people what Cabinet Health is doing these days?

Achal Patel (01:40):

Yeah, absolutely Will. So Cabinet Health is a sustainable healthcare company and really simply, we exist to eliminate single use plastic in medicine. And the reason that we care so much about that issue is that every single year there are over 194 billion single use plastic bottles produced by the pharmaceutical industry. Those end up in our oceans, our landfills or incinerated into the air that we breathe and eventually back into microplastics that are in our lungs our blood streams and the breast milk of others. And so, fundamentally plastic waste is a healthcare issue. And yet for generations we’ve given the industry a hall pass when it comes to being more environmentally sustainable. And so a cabinet we’ve really spent the last few years bringing to market the first fully refillable and compostable packaging system for pharmaceuticals. If you’re a consumer you can buy cabinet branded products and packaging format that effectively turns into dirt at the end of its life instead of microplastics. And so as we think about our broader mission and cabinet we sell our own branded products but we’re also helping the broader pharmaceutical industry transition away from plastic. So a little bit of everything is what we’re doing. Will, to answer your question, but all under, under the umbrella of eliminating single plastic medicine.

Will Davis (03:00):

You know, you bring up a good point in that the, I’m gonna say the medical industry as a whole kind of gets a pass for what their practices are in general. And do you see people giving Cabinet Health the kudos or acknowledging your mission from that perspective and saying, I continue to want to see people do something about this when they are getting that pass?

Achal Patel (03:31):

Yeah, it’s been a really exciting time to build a company because we’re at an intersection of broader trends and consumers’ desires for sustainability, but also like larger enterprises shifting towards wanting to prioritize things that are gonna be better for our planet. And so directly to your question, like where we’ve derived a lot of our energy as we’ve built Cabinet from our early adopters and our customers who have been pounding the table for more sustainable options when it comes to their everyday medicine. Probably for decades at this point, but didn’t have an option until Cabinet was in market. And so we continue to see a lot of encouragement from our customers and the way that manifest is they just keep asking us for additional products in you know, in our sustainable packaging. So for example, we originally started just with over-the-counter medicines.

(04:25):

We’re piloting a prescription business now because 80 plus percent of our customers came to us and said, look I take a prescription that’s in a plastic bottle that gets shipped to me, or I pick up from a pharmacy every month or every quarter and I need your help addressing that as well. And so at a higher level, like the way that I would think about your question like getting credit in this industry, it’s really just customers continuing to ask us for more products and trusting us with their health. And so that’s like one side of it that’s been really exciting for us. And then the second way that we think about our mission, it’s like how do we actually inspire the broader pharmaceutical industry to move away from plastic? We know that no matter how large we make Cabinet will be a fraction of those hundred 94 billion single use plastic bottles every single year.

(05:16):

And so for us to actually accomplish our mission we believe sustainability is a team sport. We wanna partner with large enterprises to help them transition away from plastic. And what’s been really exciting for us is in the last year or so a lot of big players in the pharma world have come to us and asked, Hey, can we work together to move away from single use plastic? And we have some exciting partnerships on the horizon that we’ll be announcing over the course of the next 12 months or so. But for us you know, the kudos in that world to use your words, comes from having big companies actually reach out and ask, how can we work together to, to accomplish this broader mission.

Will Davis (05:54):

Yeah. I don’t know why supply chain people like kudos

Dan Magida (05:57):

The word kudos. Yeah. They do like the word kudos. I mean, it’s a good probably word. Probably have a sticker of that you always wear Will. On that front, what challenges have you seen to go into this world of, I mean you started obviously with the plastic bottles to move to glass or also the pouch, like any challenges or quality stability on the way that you guys had to go through to ensure that these products would hold up in these new packaging forms?

Achal Patel (06:27):

Absolutely. So you know, a little bit of background I can share on how we got into this world and then what we’ve really been focused on. So for the listeners, I, you know, my background is I’m third generation healthcare entrepreneur. I grew up literally spending summers in a medicine factory that my grandfather built. And so…

Dan Magida (06:47):

Must be fun, fun campfire stories around that topic.

Achal Patel (06:51):

Yeah. Yeah. So when most people were learning things at summer camp and archery, I was learning about medicine, unfortunately <laugh>. So but ultimately that gave us as a company a really good vantage point of how did the supply chains in, in the world of medicine actually work. And part of that supply chain is everything from the medicine that’s made to the packaging to the regulatory structures around it. And as we started Cabinet many years ago with this ambition to illuminate single plastic and medicine, really what we found you know, from day one is that there were no good options in market that were environmentally sustainable for our everyday medicines. And so my co-founder Russ and I spent the first few years really figuring out the right packaging layers of compostable materials that would be able to both be backyard compostable, but also protect the pharmaceutical products that we sell.

(07:50):

And so we’ve spent the last few years going through rigorous stability studies, lab testing, getting the appropriate regulatory approvals needed to be able to bring sustainable products to market in healthcare. Which has, I’m sure you can imagine is a lot more complex than some other industries, unfortunately. And so some of the challenges that we’ve had, like in our pathway, it’s like one, just fundamentally how do you find a packaging format or in our case, like create one that is shelf stable for medicine, but also compliant with all the regulatory requirements that exist but is also sustainable. And then, you know, if you kind of go up the supply chain from the packaging you’re then kind of, you know, you get through that process, the R&D, you’re then dealing with a, a core supply chain problem around all of the, the filling machines in this industry are built for single use plastic bottles.

(08:43):

And so you walk into any pharmaceutical company, any packaging company, they’re all filling plastic bottles for OTC medicine and prescriptions. And so the last couple years we’ve actually been working with our supply chain to retrofit existing lines so that instead of filling plastic bottles, they’re able to fill compostable pouches at scale and at the cost that’s required to bring a good value product to market. And then the last challenge, which is one that we we’re working on every day still is like how do you, how do you get consumer and enterprise adoption of a new material? You know, just like any other form of innovation in other industries, adopting something that hasn’t been in market for the last 50 years. In our case, a fully backyard compostable packaging format just requires education at the consumer level and education at the buyer level and enterprises and retailers. And so if I were to summarize really the challenges that we’ve kind of faced along the way, but still are working through, it’s like one, the actual R&D to show that you can bring packaging to market that’s shelf stable, also good through the regulatory approvals. Two, it’s just changing the actual supply chain to be able to fill the medicines that we need at scale. And then three building the brand and the education to create consumer adoption and enterprise adoption to the products actually on proverbial or physical shelves.

Will Davis (10:10):

So for the most part, making sure I’m getting this right, you have the refillable items or portions of your initial point of sale items that are in a pouch, correct?

Achal Patel (10:23):

That’s right.

Will Davis (10:25):

Right. And that pouch is, when you say compostable, like it’s not like industrial compostable that you claim, like you can actually say and claim that like it you can put in your backyard and put it in that compostable.

Achal Patel (10:38):

That’s right. So if you have a worm bin at home, or if you have a Lomi, for example our products are Lomi certified. So an at home composting machine or in a worm bin in your backyard that’ll turn into dirt instead of microplastics.

Will Davis (10:51):

Which is a big deal. Cause a lot of, like, where a lot of people get hung up is when they say, I I want something that’s compostable, biodegradable. A lot of the things that are available on shelf are like industrial compostable, which means like you have to, it’s, it’s not your backyard, you know, and there’s not really places for you to actually go and put those on a scale of where it’s actually gonna happen. So in some ways you could argue it could be worse in that instance because you don’t have a place to put it.

Dan Magida (11:20):

But that’s also due to the point, Will, cause of like what the barrier element like the metallic liner that most pouches have today. So you have to separate them somehow to effectively compost your, recycle the, those pouches and you see like, like candy bars wrappers for instance.

Will Davis (11:38):

Yeah. There’s, and right, and there’s a lot of different reasons why, you know, you’ll have to go in depending on the usage or you know, what people use. But those people are very protective of their space cause they don’t want someone claiming something that isn’t happening. You know, ruining, ruining the, you know, mission that they’re drawing report, which is obviously what Cabinet is doing the positive in and that they went through. I mean, you have to do a ton of testing which goes through that. You have to prove that out. It’s, and it’s not a short period of time. And so there’s, you know, it’s a barrier for you to bring in some ways new products on the market cause you have to prove that it works. What do you say then to the people who say, okay, I get it that you’re doing it from that side?

(12:25):

Why not go like the PCR route and say, you know, here, you know, it’s already an issue in the US as well, maybe a little bit better in that there’s some streams for it, but if everybody decided they needed PCR, we would all be screwed because there’s not enough supply of it. What, what do you say to those people? Say, why not that route where it might be easier and you’re not having to retrofit your lines and you’re also, you know, people are used to the shape versus, you know, getting rid of it altogether?

Achal Patel (12:57):

Yeah, absolutely. So when, you know, we went through our initial work in research to figure out what materials make sense for, for medicines. There’s a pretty complex regulatory structure we have to fit within as well. One thing though that the, the FDA is very clear on it, you can’t use any recycled or reusable materials in pharmaceuticals. And so you have to effectively use a virgin material to bring any sort of medicine product to market in a container closure system. And so if you really start to think about then kinda like different verticals of packaging options and different like families of packaging options that’s part of what drives the status quo being HD PD bottles. And really as we’ve looked at broader sustainability trends, what consumers want, what’s actually getting properly taken care of at the end of its life we made a bet on compostable materials.

(13:51):

And I think one of the things that we’re acutely aware of is like, at the end of its life there’s still like a question of like, how do we make sure our compostable pouches end up in backyard compost bins or in at home composers? But really the only options that we saw as viable that fit into the stability requirements of our product that fit into the regulatory frameworks we have to operate in are compostable pouches as well as aluminum bottles. And so as we think about our, our company really, you can think of us as like, we have a menu of packaging options and then we have menu of medicines available and we combine those in different formats because we’ve done the lab testing with those different variations and then we package that up and we deliver that in our branded product, or we can deliver that for a larger enterprise in, in their own brand as well. And so really the reason we want compostable materials is, is one we are able to ensure that it’s able to protect the medicine and make sure it’s safe. Two, it complies with the, the FDA regulation that exists today. And then three, we took a bet on compostable materials being the wave of the future where at the end of its life, you know, turns into soil instead of microplastics that end up back in our bloodstreams, which are fundamentally healthcare issue.

Dan Magida (15:14):

I mean, I’m, I’m kind of surprised like when you mentioned the, like the recycled plastics, like the, the regulatory is not approved for that cause there’s products like you can go buy a Coca-Cola bottle plastic bottle that you’re digesting that isn’t 50% PCR. So it’s like interesting that a pill, no, but a liquid that still, it still goes down the same tube at the end of the day, you can’t then also on top of it, like we only recycle 9% of plastics to begin with and it, the sorting system is, it is what it is. But also hiding a fact check this, well maybe you know offhand, but like I think, I think you can only recycle plastics twice and then it actually becomes more harmful in the cycle. I’ve heard that before, but also it’s cheaper to make new plastic than it’s to recycle plastic. That that part’s true.

Will Davis (16:12):

Well, I I’ve not heard of the first one because I, I don’t know how you would know, like if you, if you had a recycled bottle right? And you went through wanna—

Dan Magida (16:23):

Just keep breaking break down, keep breaking down

Will Davis (16:27):

Mm-hmm. No, because ultimately you’re just, you’re melting it, you’re melting it down again. I mean you’re, you’re, you’re cleaning it and then you’re melting it down again and then you’re turning into a pellet and then you’re turning into the same thing. I mean, the interesting thing is, I think Achal is that you’re, that you mentioned is that one, I mean, people, bus bus isn’t the right term. They truck plastic bottles to different locations.

Dan Magida (16:53):

Magic school bus. Will, a bus?

Will Davis (16:56):

Magic school bus, Miss Frizzle’s driving it, there’s a bunch of Miss Frizzles that she’s driving the bus filled with plastic, but they’re trucking plastic to different locations to turn into recycle PCR you know, to turn into pellets. And, and I think you bring up a good point there, and I think, Dan, it is ironic that you can have food grade PCR, but why couldn’t you have medical grade PCR? That’s another interesting thing. And it’s regulations are hard to change and we know that. So you have to play within what you can do. I think though, what’s interesting is that, and I’m about to transition this into it, is that people then you’re, you’re partnering not just with yourself, but you’re also pushing this amongst other players. And you’ve mentioned that you’re gonna announce partnerships over the next 12 months. If you wanna break news here, you can <laugh> you know, you may have a plan for that, which is fine, but if you break news here, you’re right in that need bigger players also to catch on so that those materials are more available, which knock price down and ultimately everybody starts seeing, start seeing the benefit, people compost more and, and you get that cyclical effect.

(18:11):

Do you anticipate once you announce some of these partnerships that you’ll, you’ll see things catch on more? Have it hinted in that people are going to say, hey, we’ll actually start widespread using this? Or is it more of a wait and see crawl, walk, run type of perspective?

Achal Patel (18:32):

Yeah, so our, our ambition is that the entire market shifts away from plastic, right? And so I think there’s an interesting like, business question within that of <laugh> how do we protect against competition, et cetera. But ultimately, like the way that Russ and I look at this market is that sustainability is a team sport. The world of pharmaceuticals in the US is a 550 billion market and the world of pharmaceutical packaging is a hundred billion market by itself. And so there’s enough, there’s enough market share to go around for everyone. And more importantly, what that size represents for us is also like the magnitude of plastic waste issue in the industry. And so like, Will, the way that we look at these partnerships is how do we start to show the industry that it is possible to use non-plastic packaging at scale for pharmaceuticals for OTC medicine, for prescriptions, and then more importantly do in a way that actually inspires consumers to wanna buy that product over incumbent options.

(19:37):

And so, you know, a lot of the reason that we’ve invested so heavily in building a brand with Cabinet is that part of doing this is that we need to show the industry that it’s not only possible, but also inspire people to move away from existing options and Cabinet’s really spearhead as a brand to be able to, to do that. And so as we think about these, these partnerships for us, really where we are right now is, you know, historically we’ve focused on building our own brands, but over the next few years we’ll start to turn the corner to pilots and projects where we’re starting to do you know, what the large larger companies in industry might think are smaller volumes, but by any layman’s terms arelike massive, like ideally like millions of units a year sort of projects. But the goal is to build the stepping stones to how do we, how do we get to a point where instead of plastic being the default option, we’re looking at compostable materials as the default option.

(20:34):

And 50 years ago that transition was made from glass plastic. And if you really start to think about the way supply chains are built and optimized there’s actually a pretty good business case to be to move away from plastic. Not just because of the sustainability drivers, but like in today’s market there are, there are instances where certain combustible materials are cheaper than plastic. And to Dan’s point earlier and Will’s point, I think like we’re busing around or trucking around a bunch of plastic bottles around the country every day, that’s just empty air. We’re moving from point A to point B, particularly when it comes to like local pharmacies who are just getting empty bottles shipped to them. And so just from like a physical structure perspective too, there are a lot of advantages and materials that are flat packed, which is what we have. And saves warehouse space, saves transportation costs and if we can make it a total no-brainer by that material being even cheaper than plastic, then really the only challenge left to solve is like, how do we fill these things in a way that’s as efficient as plastic?

Will Davis (21:38):

I mean if you can fill Welch’s group, like the group snacks, like the group gummies, yeah. They have like 10 or 11 in those. I mean you have the flow of packaging down, it ends up just being the setup type of thing, which is–

Dan Magida (21:50):

Solid co-packer. But I guess I wanna transition to, cause you guys were recently in the sense that it aired on national television on Shark Tank. Who knows when that was taped? Could have been whenever.

Will Davis (22:03):

No big deal.

Dan Magida (22:03):

No big deal. It’s awesome. Congratulations. But this is kind of shifting to it. I think this was mentioned during the episode and I may fall under this umbrella or there’s probably other people who do in the fact that like if I have a, if I get a headache, I’m gonna go, I I need a pain reliever. It’s reactionary in that sense. I gotta go, go buy some medicine. So I’m gonna go to, you know, CVS, Walgreens, walk into the store, I don’t really care about the brand name as much cause you just want to grab what’s there and go and your instinct cuz you got a headache. So your head’s not a hundred percent in the game is I need something now to take, I’m not thinking about the eco-friendly mission. How do you combat that persona consumer and their shopping experience?

Achal Patel (22:54):

Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean our, our metric of the way that we think as a team about combating the shoe of plastic waste in medicine isn’t to go to a customer and say like, reduce your plastic waste in your medicine. But rather like, we wanna be a no-brainer option. We’re more affordable than the brand name. We batch level independent quality testing, the product looks nicer and it’s sustainable in probably that order too. So if you have a headache, Dan, you walk into a local pharmacy the way that we win you over as a customer is that we actually should be in that pharmacy. And this year we’re launching in two retailers that we’re excited to roll out with and so we can treat–

Dan Magida (23:36):

Do you wanna, do you wanna mention those retailers for the audience?

Achal Patel (23:39):

 I can’t, I can’t yet. but when the time comes I’ll let you all know. So…

Will Davis (23:44):

We’ll break some news here soon.

Dan Magida (23:46):

We’ll just guess and we’ll just base this off. You know, we don’t have access to no video here, so just nod if it’s Target, Walgreens, Walmart, but we don’t have to play this game.

Achal Patel (23:55):

Yeah, I haven’t, I haven’t nodded to to anything yet. I haven’t said yes or no. So the but to, to answer your question, like we, we wanna be, we wanna be there when you walk into a store and I think what’s important is in that moment we wanna be that easy, good value, sustainable switch where it becomes a no-brainer option. And so some of the things that we’re working on is in about a month we’re actually gonna launch the next version of our product and that’ll represent a better value for consumers. So higher pill counts, lower price points, and ultimately our refills will be 20 to 30% less than the name brand. And so the way that we wanna win our customers is look, just switch to Cabinet, it’s cheaper, it looks nicer, it’s higher quality and it’s more sustainable. And so that, whether it’s you’re prepared proactive customer that’s buying online or you’re reactive and you go to a store ideally that’s how we win you over.

Dan Magida (24:49):

I mean, price is important. I mean inflation we’ve seen, I mean we saw when eggs skyrocketed for a while, so there is definitely some sensitivity around consumers and you know, it’s allergy season too, so probably a big marketing play for you guys right? There is stock up on, on those notes.

Will Davis (25:07):

I don’t, yeah, it’s hard for me like with allergy medication because I wanna say the the brand name of what it is, which is I know is not correct and there’s like two I guess is what antihistamine medication if I was not wanting to give those people shout outs. But point being though, in that, in this case, you know, since we are a supply chain podcast, we’ve seen a lot of people over order here recently. People are, you know, we thought that just in time in terms of that mindset was going away for a couple of years while people needed safety stocks and just to get it. And now it’s rearing its head again and saying, Nope, you know, when it comes to inventory you don’t wanna have excess on your books where you can avoid it. You know, are y’all in the same situation for you?

(25:58):

Is it the same in that, you know, you have higher turnover and you know, you can get rid of things quicker, you know, are you at the point to where, because of the SKU counts that you have, are, are things trickier for you in that you have some stuff that doesn’t sell? I guess some people don’t, you know, need the antihistamine medication as much or you know, you know, there’s not as much, you know, bowel movement, you know, IBD you know, medication go out. What, what moves, what doesn’t move and how does that change because it’s medicine?

Achal Patel (26:27):

Yeah, as you can imagine, the last three years for healthcare products have been very different than I’d say like steady state prior to that. So the short answer is that we’re susceptible to the same supply challenges and demand fluctuations as many other businesses. And over the course of Covid it’s probably been even worse because what’s happened is a combination of like, you know, early 2020 massive demand spikes of cold and flu products as well as just e-commerce products in general, as many of the listeners I’m sure experience. At the same time, like our supply downstream, our products are manufactured in India, you’re then trying to import medicines from India to the US and ships of the customers when demand skyrocketing. And so I would say like the first phase of covid for us was like, really just how do we keep products in stock so that consumers can get medicines for when they get sick?

(27:28):

And that was really like the reality we’re living in. And then the second phase, I would say in 2021, 2022, is really around like, what will, what will like the norm become? And so as consumers we’re staying at home more often in 2021, we saw that cold and flu as well as allergy products actually dipped from like historical levels where people were going out less, they weren’t, their kids weren’t in school, they weren’t getting as sick often they weren’t allergies. And the demand for products that you know, you would typically see spike in the spring or the fall of the winter just weren’t quite the same levels. And a lot of people had also stocked up on those medicines in 2020. And then we’re now kind of in this third phase of trying to get to a new normal where, you know, actually this, this past fall and what we expect to happen this spring is a pretty pronounced allergy season is consumers are back being out.

(28:25):

Oh, thanks. Can’t wait. Yeah. Yeah. And so we’ve already seen allergy level spike. We saw cold and flu kind of increase a lot this winter. I mean, I dunno about y’all, but everyone I was around this winter was sick at some point and I was sick three separate times. And, and so there’s a lot of demand fluctuations just from how different our lives and our behavior have been over the last three years that we’re experiencing. And then on, on the tail end to your initial question, like we’ve had ebbs and flows of inventory in stock and like how much we have in stock. And so really what we’ve relied on though to manage through that is two things. One is building a really good operations team that understands like how to think about those things on like a weekly, if not more frequent basis of like, hey, we’re seeing, we’re seeing demand spike up or spike down.

(29:15):

How’s it compare across channels? So we sell direct to consumer, we sell on Amazon, we sell on retail. So we’re able to have good reads on that across the board. And then the second way that we’ve really worked through that is just to build really good partnerships with our supply chain partners. And so knowing what lead times are for every single component across the entire supply chain at all times, knowing that if we see demand spike, like how do we activate, how do we activate our partners to be able to meet that, or if we see demand dip, like how do we work with our existing like marketing and sales teams to be able to move some more product through channels that are already active? And so fundamentally it’s just a good s p process and good people around us helping us. And then but yeah, it’s been, it’s been a crazy few years.

Will Davis (30:00):

Have you seen an uptick in sertraline? I I think I’m saying it correctly commonly known as Zoloft. Yeah. And that’s why you’re in prescription now because you’re like, we need to get out on all these people who are wanting an anxiety medication.

Achal Patel (30:16):

So there’s a really you know, if we think about our customer base, a lot of our customers not surprisingly care about climate change, they care about how do I, how do I manage like my own plastic output or carbon footprint on a daily basis? And they’re also…

Dan Magida (30:35):

How do they measure that? How are they currently measuring that today?

Achal Patel (30:39):

I think it’s the way that most humans do, which is like, hey, I live in an apartment and I have this much plastic from takeout, or I go to the store and I make choices. And in some categories you have an option to be sustainable, some categories you don’t. And so I think they’re definitely folks that are much more pronounced in how they measure it, but there’s also just the fundamental human feeling of like, how do I not contribute to climate change? <laugh> more every single day, I’m living my, my life. And so, so Will, to your question, like we, we think there’s this really interesting, or there is this intersection in our customer base of like consumers that feel anxiety about climate change and like the broader issue that it’s causing. And then also there’s this deep irony that while they’re feeling that and taking products to help them with that condition they’re still contributing to the broader issue that might be contributing to part of that anxiety in the first place. And so the short answer is like we, we see a significant overlap of our consumers that are on products that treat mental health issues, but also are looking for sustainable options. And Cabinet’s been an opportunity for them to be able to do that without compromising on the health.

Will Davis (31:59):

Yeah. That it is kind of a, like without Cabinet, it’s a circular thing, you know, because you have anxiety about the planet, you order something, you know, that helps you with that anxiety that contributes to the demise of the planet. And then in the end, you know, you’re, you know, obviously I think there’s like a good cartoon strip that could be drawn from it, but you wanna do something about it, which is what y’all are doing. Did you have that video or do you have a video where you knew the Shark Tank episode was going to air and then you have your website traffic where you have, you’re like, Hey, all right, let’s see what happens. And then you get to see it take off.

Achal Patel (32:42):

We probably do. We had, we were with our team actually for an offsite when the episode aired. And so we had a fun watch party, we had a bingo board and yeah, it was, it was really fun. We saw a big bump of, of traffic and sales. And I think, you know, the reason that we wanted to go on, on Shark Tank was that the issue of sustainability when it comes to healthcare and medicine is just like not, it’s not something we think about every day. On the list of like where plastic’s an issue and industries that you can move away from less environmentally sustainable options. Typically healthcare is like, not even in the consideration set. People are like, all right, how do I make more sustainable options when it comes to my transportation, my food, my household cleaning products perhaps? But healthcare is kind of far down that list. And so for us, really what Shark Tank was an opportunity to do was to be able to, to one, just educate consumers on the issue that Russ and I care so deeply about and show them that there is an option to be able to switch sustainable without compromising on value or quality. And so yeah, that was a fun experience for us to be able to go on the show. And then we had a ton of fun watching with our team as well.

Dan Magida (33:57):

I mean, it sounds, I mean, what’s they, they they, the experience in itself, like your, I mean your segment is only, I mean, it depends on obviously each brand segments different. Yours is what, well over 10 minutes, but in terms of filming length or the just the day, is it, is it a one day experience, multi-day experience, hours you’re talking to them?

Achal Patel (34:21):

Yeah, we were, we were out at the studio for the day. It was, it was a ton of fun. I’ve never been on a, a studio, I’ve never been on like a studio set. And so <laugh>, the Shark Tank, the Shark Tank studio is right next to Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy which is nice, throwback. Nice. And then in terms of the airing, it was, it was…

(34:40):

Did you try out for Jeopardy knowing that you were gonna be out there at the same time?

(34:44):

They wouldn’t, they wouldn’t let us out there, unfortunately. We did ask for the studio tour, but they said it was closed for the summer or something. And so we, we ended up being out there for, for day and then our episode was probably about 45 minutes, maybe an hour of filming time. And what I really appreciated is like, it allowed us to have like a meaningful dialogue around what we’re building and, and talk through a lot of it. Which you know, the, the TV episodes are obviously a snippet of that. But it was really cool cause we had a, we had a meaningful conversation with all the sharks about we’re building and the opportunities, the challenges associated with it and you know, walked outta there with, with the deal, but also with being able to educate five people that can really move this issue forward around something that we care about.

Dan Magida (35:33):

Yep. And you also then raised what, 17 million on top of it too that you announced as well. So it seems like you guys are well positioned hopefully this year in the future to continue that sustainable push.

Achal Patel (35:45):

Absolutely. And, and we’re, we’re excited for the year ahead. We have a lot of you know, big things on the horizon with retail launches, the launch of our prescription business in a more meaningful way and some additional partnerships that we’re working on. But for us it’s, it’s really beginning. We’ve spent a lot of last years building kinda what we like to call the foundation of our house, and we’re excited to see of that come above ground.

Will Davis (36:09):

You were very, your decorum was very good, both you and Russ, you know, for people worked with you and, and know your business, you know, a little bit more intimately. I was personally offended and I don’t know what your reaction was that when you were effectively called a commodity and you know, then you’re called a commodity and then you’re told you’re out at, is there any part of like the reptilian brain that we have where you’re like, we’re not a commodity. I we are doing X, Y, Z versus, like, you ultimately you say, you know, thank you, I appreciate your feedback. Is there any point in time where you’re like, man, that’s a personal affront against me. I wish, you know, I could say what I really wanted to say.

Achal Patel (36:55):

You know, honestly from my perspective, like we, we have so many people that believe in what we’re building and the importance of it that as a founder at a certain point you kind of just have to like store away any of the negativity and throw it out the back door. And I think it’s because we’ve been at this now for almost five years that I’ve built a bit of that muscle I think a couple of years ago would’ve had a bit of a different reaction. But at this point, like we have, we have customers, we have you know, family, friends, countless people or team obviously that believe in our mission. And it’s beneficial for us to focus on, you know, the people who believe in that and why, and understand how hard it is to do what we’re doing. And focus on that and versus, you know, people that have a snippet of the business and wanna say particular things about it from, from a limited experience.

Will Davis (37:51):

See, that’s another good answer. Yeah. You know, he’s trying, we’re trying to get, you know, we were trying for that, you know, that, you know, that shock piece that we cycle around on all the social media saying, you know, Cabinet co-founder goes after Shark for calling them a commodity, all these different things and we didn’t get it. No, but, you know, we’ll that’s good. We’ll just have to go to the B material.

Dan Magida (38:13):

Which could be this one. You know, usually before we go, we always ask to interview like, what’s the favorite product that you, you produce? Now I can ask you of all the drugs or over the counters that you guys produce, which one do you pop every day? But I don’t know if that’s gonna really move a needle too. Like, I’m addicted to pain relievers every single day, but I don’t know.

Achal Patel (38:35):

No, I, you know, it’s, it’s actually a good question. And so part of what made me personally acutely wear of the plastic issue in this space is I take cetirizine the equivalent of Zyrtec every single day for allergies. so I did not know that was the equivalent.

(38:53):

Yeah. And so you know, when you use it every single day for, for decades, like you start to realize how many plastic bottles that you’re using, especially when you like lose them somewhere and you’re like, oh shoot, I buy another one. And so to answer your question, Dan, like cetirizine is my favorite product. It helps me enjoy the outdoors and helps me hang out with my dog without feeling terrible. And so the short answer is that’s my favorite product. But it’s also kinda what educated me more intimately about this issue from like a consumer perspective. It’s just like you see these mounds of plastic in your own medicine cabinet, you’re like, there’s gotta be a better way to do this. And it’s like, oh wait, I grew up in this supply chain. I can figure this out with my co-founder Russ. And here we are

(39:34):

Dan and I’s favorite, in case you were wondering, is 81 milligrams of ibuprofen or from there, from the Bear. I think that’s what it’s,

(39:46):

It’s aspirin. Yeah. Yeah. It’s

Will Davis (39:48):

Aspirin. Actual legitimate aspirin. 81 milligrams is great for their heart. That’s what we do every day. But people in our demographic, their favorite happens to be Adderall.

Dan Magida (39:58):

Yeah. <laugh>. I don’t, I don’t do that. I don’t take that well.

Will Davis (40:00):

Right. That’s why I said it’s not our favorite. Cause we use stuff good for our heart.

Dan Magida (40:05):

I don’t take, I don’t, I don’t take anything really.

Will Davis (40:08):

Yeah, we’re, we’re we’re coming through life. Yeah.

Achal Patel (40:11):

Dan just thrives off of the rainy California weather.

Dan Magida (40:15):

Dude. It literally just started raining again. It’s ridiculous. But you know, when, back in New York, just in time for allergy season, which is April and May the worst time to be in New York, where literally you don’t realize you have allergies until you live in New York, which we’ve all done at one point in your life is these random allergies that you’re just, you just develop in New York. That’s what the new slogan, New York made a new slogan, but it should be come here for allergies. That’s what their slogan should be. I don’t know what Adams and hoola are thinking there, but maybe we’ll have them on to discuss that slogan.

Will Davis (40:53):

Maybe you could do marketing for the New York City government.

Dan Magida (40:56):

I’d rather do other things than deal with politics. But we appreciate, you know, you coming on educating us on the sustainability approach. What’s the best way for people to go find more information on Cabinet? Where can they shop, retail, etc.

Will Davis (41:12):

Where can I get the prescription?

Dan Magida (41:12):

Yeah, where can Will, get,

Will Davis (41:13):

Where can get, where can

Dan Magida (41:15):

get my allergy pills or anxiety pills or indigestion pills?

Achal Patel (41:20):

<laugh>, All of the above is available on cabinethealth.com. And then as we start to launch in retailers, we’ll share more content on our site too. So, cabinethealth.com, best place to check us out.

Will Davis (41:32):

There we go. And we won’t, when you do go into retailers, you know, we will do our best to make sure people know where to find it. We won’t commit any sabotage. We won’t turn around like I, you know, Advil or Tylenol medicine bottles like facing the other way so that they don’t know where it’s, but yeah we’ll be interested.

Dan Magida (41:54):

Mean, I’ll probably locked up, right? Isn’t everything just locked up behind glass nowadays in every convenience store?

Achal Patel (42:00):

Oh, Dan. You got, you gotta get, you gotta get outta the city, man.

Will Davis (42:03):

Come back to the East Coast dude.

Achal Patel (42:05):

Go, go anywhere other than a major city.

Will Davis (42:07):

Yeah. Come back home. Yeah.

Dan Magida (42:09):

Well on that note, I’ll go book a flight back home.

Will Davis (42:12):

Dan is booking a flight. Achal, thank you so much for coming. We appreciate it and go to Cabinet Health, get healthy and do yourself a favor and get less plastic out of the world.

Dan Magida (42:24):

Take care. And as always Will and I will be back with another episode of Safety Stock. Feel free to listen to us wherever you subscribe to your podcast. If that’s Spotify, Apple and the other places loading out there. Or if you need to reach out to us, feel free to at one of our emails @anvyl.com. Just our first name.

Will Davis (42:47):

Yeah. hello@anvyl.com. Yeah. There you go. All right guys. Talk to you all soon.